(English Transcript) Monday, 22nd of November, 2004
22. November 2004

This is the fourth part of a Swedish news program that investigates the expulsions of two Egyptian asylum seekers from Sweden to Egypt in December 2001. Reporters speak with many of the sources present at Bromma airport on the night of their arrest on December 18.

Studio:
Opening:
Welcome to Kalla Fakta,

Disguised American agents imprison and humiliate prisoners on Swedish soil.
This Spring Kalla Fakta revealed how two Egyptians were brutally removed from Sweden to face torture in Egypt. We have of course investigated the case.
Tonight we can reveal that the Swedish government has covered up witness statements about torture before the UN Committee against Torture, which is now investigating the event.

But we can also reveal that what happened at Bromma airport wasn’t a singular event. In a unique look at the event, we can tonight for the first time show how extensive the United State’s illegal man hunt has been since the terror attacks on September 11th, 2001.

The disguised agents who landed at Bromma airport belonged to a secret commando unit that answers directly to the Pentagon, and whose task it is to retrieve people who in some way have come to the American intelligence community’s attention and move them to countries where they can be tortured into giving up information.

This secret commando unit has executed at least 72 missions all over the world. The same plane that landed at Bromma airport flies non-stop between destinations such as Cairo, Kabul and Guantànamo in Cuba.

Julia Hall, Human Rights Watch:
It’s difficult to over-emphasize how important the Swedish cases really are.

Göran Persson, Prime minister:
We are one of the countries that has always supported any action that supports human rights across the world.

Anna Wigenmark, The Swedish Helsinki Committee for Human Rights:
This is very embarrassing, I think it’s downright disgraceful.

Mahmoud Jaballah:
If they sent me to Egypt, my life is going to be finished.

Craig Murray, Former British Ambassador to Uzbekistan:
These show that the person was boiled to death.

Robert Baer, Former CIA agent:
There is a rule inside the CIA, if you want them to be killed or tortured to death you send them either to Egypt or Syria, never see them again.

Laila Freivalds, Minister for Foreign Affairs:
It goes without saying that a person who is being deported has to be treated with humanity and dignity.

Julia Hall, Human Rights Watch:
I would say that Sweden’s reputation is tarnished by this event.

******************* N379P – MAN HUNT **************

Live:
Hello, how are you doing?

Yes, it’s very close to Baghdad, We also knew it was a weapon storage place for high explosives.

Thanks bye!

Voice over (VO)/Robert Baer:
I was a case officer in the Middle East for the CIA for 21 years. I was in Beirut, Iraq, all over the Middle East, Saudi Arabia, Tunisia, Morocco. What I am trying to tell you is that I have a certain understanding the way these countries work and what you can expect from them.

Speaker:
Robert Baer, former CIA agent who has worked in both the Middle East and in Sweden. Since the late 90s he writes books – high atop the Rocky Mountains in Colorado.

Live:
Hi Bob!
How is it going?
I am mad at you!
Why, what did we do?
Your book is keeping me up at night!
Oh is it? Good!

Robert Baer, Former CIA agent:
My curiosity in the Middle East is how we are fighting war on terrorism and obviously being an insider I can pretty much tell you what’s going to happen.

Speaker:
On December 18th 2001 at 9.49 p.m. the small exclusive jet plane N379P took off from Bromma airport. Aboard were Ahmed Agiza and Muhammed Al-Zery. They had been turned over by Swedish police to disguised American agents – who had taken command – and on Swedish soil cut up their clothes, put hoods over their heads and inserted suppositories into their anuses. When the plane landed in Cairo at 3.00 a.m. the men were turned over to Egyptian intelligence officers.

Kalla Fakta has, despite secrecy and cover-ups, been able to trace the plane that arrived at Bromma airport. The operation turned out to be the first of many, where that same plane - N379P - acted as a prison transport in the American man hunt after September 11th 2001.

The report reveals that the since October 2001, the plane has completed at least 72 operations in over 30 countries. It has a special landing permit at military bases all over the world and is also afforded free passage in international airspace.

The plane’s routes always follow the same pattern. After take-off from its home base in Smithfield, North Carolina it makes a short stop at Dulles International Airport in Washington, close to the CIA headquarters and Pentagon.

After crossing the Atlantic it makes stops in places such as Shannon, Ireland, Frankfurt, Germany and Prague in the Czech Republic.

Thereafter, it flies exclusively to countries that are allied with the United States in the fight against terror: Morocco, Libya, Egypt, Jordan, Uzbekistan and Pakistan.

Countries where prisoners are kept and interrogated, far beyond the reach of American and international courts.

All of these are common destinations for N379P. Just like the American prison camp at Guantanamo, Cuba.

The pattern is repeated over and over again.

Speaker:
In September 2003 the plane makes one of its many journeys to Afghanistan. After landing on-route in Frankfurt, the plane continues to Kabul, and thereafter to Amman in Jordan – whose intelligence service is allied with the United States.

Robert Baer, Former CIA agent:
Shannon, that’s refuelling stop, Dulles - Djibouti, you’ve got Islamic problems there. Afghanistan, Guantanamo, Rabat. It stops were you have Islamic prisoners or suspected terrorists.

Speaker:
On September 6th of this year, the plane takes off from. Via Majorca it flies to Mitiga, a small airport outside of Tripoli in Libya, and from there it continues directly to the Guantanamo base in Cuba.

October 2001, a month or so before the Bromma operation. The plane, N379P, lands in Karachi, Pakistan. The prisoner that time is Jamil Mohammed, the event is witnessed by airport personnel.

Masood Anwar, Reporter The News, Karachi, Pakistan:
The eyewitnesses that have seen the entire drama, they told me that all the persons wearing mask. And saw the tail number of the aircraft was N379P.

Robert Baer, Former CIA agent:
I can tell you exactly how this works. The government of Pakistan identifies Quasem Mohammed possibly from documents from Afghanistan, they arrest the guy take him to the airport in Karachi, an airplane lands, takes him to Amman were he is turned over to the government of Jordan witch is very effective in interrogate Arabic speaking prisoners.

Speaker:
N379P isn’t just any old plane. In September this year Seymour Hersh, one of the United States’ leading investigative reporters was able to reveal that the plane flies for an American special commando unit with the right to kidnap, torture and even kill.

Seymour Hersh, Journalist and author:
The United States sometime right around then, three or four months after 9/11 set up a separate unit a special unit that reported only to the Pentagon through Rumsfeld the secretary of defence that was known as it has a general classification of, we call it a special access program or SAP for the abbreviation, it's a program that's run in the most secret way, inside the military. Each of the men were handpicked. So this was a very elite unit and their function was as said to go and go and take people anywhere.

Speaker:
Kalla fakta has mapped out the route of the plane from Bromma, N379P, and its owner – Premier. The owners of the company only have P.O. box addresses near the Pentagon, and their identities are fictitious.

The only known representative is a law firm in Boston. We call them, posing as potential customers.

Telephone:
Dean Plakias, Representative, Premier:
-Are you the attorneys for the owners?
-Right, they are clients. I have a contact number for you. Talk to Mary Ellen, she should answer the phone? Thank you for flying with Premier.
-I hope I won’t be flying, but thanks anyway

Telephone:
Mary Ellen McGuinness, Premier Executive Transport Services:
We only lease through the US government, we are on a long term leasing agreement with them.

Speaker:
We maintain our cover and let them know that it’s a matter of cooperation with the Americans and that we’re worried about what can be traced.

Telephone:
Mary Ellen McGuinness, Premier Executive Transport Services:
-It would not show up on your end.
-Definitely not?
-No. You would probably not even know that there was a US government connection because our contracts are very classified.

Speaker:
Kalla fakta has found documents that indicate contracts of over SEK 20 million between the company that handles the airplane and the Pentagon.

January 10th 2002: a man in chains and with a hood over his head is taken out onto the strictly guarded runway of the Halim airport in central Jakarta. Muhammad Iqbal is taken into custody by disguised men and taken aboard as the plane takes off for Egypt. A few days later the plane N379P returns from Cairo to the U.S. According to rumours in the intelligence communities in the west, Iqbal died during interrogations in Egypt.

Speaker:
In June 2002 the German citizen Mohammed Zammar is flown from Morocco to Syria, where he is imprisoned.

Robert Baer, Former CIA agent:
You basically bypass the Geneva Convention because you don’t need evidence. Like Zamar, there was not enough evidence obviously that he broke US law, but we still wanted him off the streets so we arranged with the Moroccan government to have him arrested, sent to Jordan and then to Syria where he is either dead or alive I don’t know. With the Syrians engaging torture, there is no bones about it.

Speaker:
Robert Baer has been informed of the information that Kalla fakta has gathered and his opinion is clear – this is a case of so-called ”Extraordinary Renditions”, secret prison transports with no legal foundation.

Robert Baer, Former CIA agent:
The places where they have gone, the way that they have gone out of their way to hide the identity of the airplane, the testimony of people who have seen people go on and come off – they are rendition flights!

Seymour Hersh, Journalist and author:
What happened in Sweden was going to happen and did happen around the world. People were taken, without due recourse for any legal worries, period. And it can happen because we wanted it to happen.

***************************************************************

Studio:

Closing:
Sweden has a tradition of being one of the forerunners in the fight for human rights in the world. Our country has suddenly been thrust into a completely different position. The Swedish government’s handling of the Egyptians is jeopardizing the continued existence of the international ban against deporting people to countries where they risk torture.

More on that in a moment.

Plug:

**********************************************************

Barbara Jackman:
The end result is that the Swedish case will be the test case for other countries.

Live:
Mr Jaballah?

*********************************************************

COMMERCIAL

Opening:
Welcome back to Kalla Fakta.

Sweden’s actions in the case of the two Egyptians who were deported to Egypt can have enormous negative consequences in the fight to defend human rights. Sweden has paved the way for a new way to circumvent the ban on sending people to a country where they risk being tortured.

The UN Committee against Torture is examining the case of the Egyptians right now, and the outcome may have grave consequences on how prisoners may be able to be treated in the future. Is it okay to, as Sweden did, deport people to a country where torture is routine, if the receiving country signs an agreement that in that particular case, the person will not be tortured? Even though there is no way to check that the agreement is upheld?

****************************************************************

Live:
Is it this one? 148 East and Lexington!

VO/Anna Wigenmark:
This case was something that everyone reacted to very strongly. International organisations and experts are surprised, not interested but surprised and shocked, at how this case has been handled by Swedish authorities and the government.

Live:
Hi! Good we need to go to the Empire State building as fast as you can.

VO/Julia Hall:
It’s difficult to over emphasize how important the Swedish cases really are.

Speaker:
December 2001. The Swedish government wanted to deport the two Egyptians Ahmed Agiza and Muhammed Al-Zery. But the government had a problem.

The thing is that international law forbids deportations to places where the persons risk being tortured, and Egypt has long been notorious for systematically using torture as an interrogation tool.

The solution was to construct a guarantee where Sweden returned the men if Egypt promised that they would receive a fair trial and that they would not be subjected to torture.

The diplomatic guarantee broke the trend within international law, and had serious consequences – not just for Agiza and Al-Zery – but for Sweden’s reputation and outlook on human rights as well.

Live:
-Hi!
-Wendy!
-How are you?

Live/Julia Hall:
I mean this interest in this whole issue of insurances is kind of taking this leap in these last couple of months.

Speaker:
We are in New York at the end of October. Human rights organisations and experts in international law gather here for a week for a number of meetings and discussions. The subject is diplomatic guarantees, and Sweden is in the spotlight.

Julia Hall, Human Rights Watch:
In the past we have looked to Sweden for moral authority, we have looked to Sweden to be a leading voice in terms of human rights. And these cases, not only the cases not only the actual transfer and the mistake of transfer, but the response to the uproar has been so inadequate and the Swedish government has contradicted it self so many times and made excuses for torture.

Anna Wigenmark, The Swedish Helsinki Committee for Human Rights:
When everything was on the line, when Sweden’s word was put to the test, we were unable to live up to those noble words on human rights in the fight against terrorism. As a Swede, my feeling is that we ought to be ashamed of ourselves.

Peter Rosenblum, Professor, human rights, Columbia Law School:
You say the first time you heard about the diplomatic assurances was in the Swedish case, what was your immediate reaction?
Well…really, shock!

VO/Peter Rosenblum:
And I certainly had this level of doubt and uncertainty what I was hearing when I first heard it.

Speaker:
Columbia University in New York. Peter Rosenblum, professor of human rights, teaches here, and he uses the Swedish-Egyptian guarantee as an example in his classes.

VO/Peter Rosenblum:
This is like sending a child back to the child molester, and just getting an agreement from the child molester, that he won’t molest this child.

Peter Rosenblum, Professor, human rights, Columbia Law School:
It involves a ladder of cynicism about the overall practice and inherently a notion that, we have touched this child, we have touched this person and therefore we have some responsibility for him, we don’t want to get caught. But we are not really going to worry about this bigger picture at the time.

Live/Theo Van Boven:
Distinguished representatives and observers. Questionable is the reliance on diplomatic assurances that transferred suspects will not be subjected to torture. Persons have indeed been subjected to torture in spite of insurances given.

Speaker:
October of this year. The Special Rapporteur of the UN Commission on Human Rights, Theo Van Boven, presents his annual report to the general assembly. The focus is on the burning question of diplomatic guarantees – and Sweden plays a central role.

VO/Theo Van Boven:
It turned out that these guarantees often had been a loophole rather then a guarantee. If already a country like Sweden, I respect Sweden, it has a long history and reputation of human rights, it has been a leader in the UN…

Theo Van Boven
Special Rapporteur of the UN Commission on Human Rights
If they already starts to shake on these kind of issues to common date, to make concessions, what can we expect from other countries – so we have to stop this trend therefore.

Speaker:
Theo Van Boven is extremely critical of diplomatic guarantees – if they are to be used at all, he demands that a number of demands are met.

The UN report states that the person shall be given independent medical examinations, that all interrogations have to be recorded – preferably on video tape. A attorney has to be present when the prisoner is interrogated. And it should be forbidden to keep the prisoner in an undisclosed location.

Follow-up on the demands shall be done regularly by an independent person or organisation, one that has no affiliation with either the country that deports the persons or the receiving country.

Graphics:
-Immediate independent medical examination
-Recording of all interrogations
-Attorney present at interrogation
-Keeping the prisoner in an undisclosed location not allowed
-Regular independent control

Theo Van Boven, Special Rapporteur of the UN Commission on Human Rights:
These are certain minimum conditions witch should be agreed upon and carefully monitored.

Laila Freivalds, Minister for Foreign Affairs:
-Has there been an independent medical examination?
-I don’t think we have ever asked for an independent medical examination, I can’t recall anything like that.
-Have the interrogations been held in the presence of attorneys?
-I can’t answer that, you’ll have to look in the embassy reports…
-What about these visits to the prison, the talks? Have they been private, with no others?
-I don’t think the ambassador has had any private talks, I don’t think that the prison has agreed to that.

Speaker:
The only follow-up is conducted by the Swedish embassy in Cairo, which once a month sends someone to the prison. But the visits are held in the warden’s office, with intelligence personnel who write down everything the prisoners dare to say.

Laila Freivalds
Minister for Foreign Affairs
-None of the demands have been met in this case. What does that say about the believability of these follow-ups?
-Well, I just want to say that if I make a decision where there is an international accord, which Sweden in all likelihood has been instrumental in working out, I will make sure that we follow those international commitments.
-But I’m talking about this case!
-Yes, and I played no part in that case, so I can’t comment on it.

Speaker:
With a statement saying that her predecessor made the decision, Laila Freivalds, Sweden’s Minister for Foreign Affairs, renounces all responsibility for the guarantee breaking all the present demands set out by the UN.

Peter Rosenblum, Professor, human rights, Columbia Law School:
If you brought together a group of students and said how should we do prison monitoring? Should we interview them in the warden’s office? Should we interview them in the presence of jail officials? Should the person be the Swedish ambassador? Should we, should we should we? I think the reaction would have been to laugh!

Speaker:
Julia Hall and Anna Wigenmark prepare for another important UN event. The UN Committee against Torture will soon decide if Sweden violated international law when they made the deal for the guarantee and deported the two men to Egypt.

Julia Hall
Human Rights Watch
The Swedish cases are critical in that sense, there will be a decision in the Committee against Torture in November that will make a determination as to whether Sweden violated its torture obligations.

Speaker:
The question – if the men were subjected to torture in Egypt – is vital. The Swedish government maintains that they haven’t been tortured. As a basis for their assertion, Sweden refers to what Ahmed Agiza said at the ambassador’s first visit, among other things. The UN writes to the government:

Graphics:
”At this point the complainant had no complaints about torture or his treatment in prison.”

Speaker:
Kalla fakta can now reveal that this is not correct. The first report from the ambassador shows – contrary to the government’s assertions – that Agiza told of how he and Al-Zery were forced to wear blindfolds for weeks of interrogations, weren’t allowed to sleep, of beatings and abuse – information that the Swedish government has classified and is refusing to turn over to the UN.

Laila Freivalds, Minister for Foreign Affairs:
We base our assertions on the statements made by the ambassador and I hope that the report issued by the Ministry of Foreign Affairs contains the information that the ambassador gave us.
-That’s not the case!
-?
-Isn’t it a grave error that the relevant information is not being passed on to the UN committee?
-I don’t know what explanation there could be for this. I can take this to the people back at the ministry, but I can’t answer that.

Anna Wigenmark, The Swedish Helsinki Committee for Human Rights:
-It is distressing that Sweden would resort to defending itself, before a committee, by simply withholding the truth. In order to avoid being criticised and taking responsibility they are withholding the truth from the investigating committee and that is very serious. There can never be a real investigation.

VO/Anna Wigenmark:
If the UN Committee against Torture were to say: Sweden hasn’t violated the torture ban, well, then that opens up the possibility for all states to use these kinds of guarantees and I think a lot of countries would like to do that.

Speaker:
Kalla fakta travels to Toronto in order to see Mahmoud Jaballah, suspected by the Canadian authorities to be a terrorist, and one of the people whose destiny can be affected by Sweden’s actions.

Live:
-Mr Jaballah?
-Yes, how are you?
-Nice meeting you, have a seat.

Mahmoud Jaballah
If they sent me to Egypt, my life is going to be finished. my life is going to be finished. Torture up to I’m going to die, or they are going to kill me. Nothing future for me.

VO/Barbara Jackman:
He is in jail, because the government believes that he has been involved with Islamic fundamentalist movements that are linked to Al-Qaeda. There are several cases going on in Canada post 11/9 2001 where Muslims have been accused to have links to Al-Qaeda we don’t know what the proof is…

Barbara Jackman, Mahmoud Jaballah’s attorney:
…the person never gets to see the witnesses, never gets to see what the evidence is, doesn’t know the source of evidence, I mean, for all we know.

VO/Barbara Jackman:
It is very likely that the information came from the Egyptian government.

Speaker:
In this Toronto jail alone there are three people that the Canadian authorities want to deport. Mahmoud Jaballah, who fled Egypt for Canada in 1996, after being tortured during an interrogation, knows what to expect if he is sent back to the Egyptian police.

Mahmoud Jaballah
They tortured me for one month, everyday, everyday, everyday. Not only me, I told you, many people.
Sometime they take electric shocks, and put it in the private place, for to make scream, scream. And sometime they took me and hung me from the leg in the ceiling and my face down and hit me.

Barbara Jackman, Mahmoud Jaballah’s attorney:
The end result is that the Swedish case will be the test case for other countries, and the issue of rendition or returning people to torture is a common issue these days in all democratic countries.

VO/ Mahmoud Jaballah:
Nothing guarantee they going to get from my country. And whatever they are going to do they are going to do, after they got me they don’t care.

Dr. Suzan Fayad, Nadim Centre for torture victims in Cairo:
Torture is very widespread in police stations and state security detention places. Electricity is used unfortunately widely it is used routinely, and sometimes for punishment, for political or oppositional people, and sometime just to compliment for third partner.

Robert Baer, Former CIA agent:
There is a rule inside the CIA that if you want a good interrogation and you want good information you send the suspect to Jordan, if you want them to be killed or tortured to death you send them either to Egypt or Syria, never see them again.

Speaker:
Uzbekistan - neighbouring country to Afghanistan – is, after September 11, like Egypt, allied with the US.

A half billion dollars in aid annually gives the Americans a large air force base in a strategic area and loyal coalition partners in the war against terror.

Craig Murray, Former British Ambassador to Uzbekistan:
The CIA does have a fairly large presence in Taskjent.

Speaker:
A month ago Craig Murray was fired from his position as Great Britain’s ambassador to Uzbekistan after speaking up about the oppression and torture. And about the United States’ involvement.

Craig Murray, Former British Ambassador to Uzbekistan:
Certainly the Uzbeks pass on to the CIA intelligence which is obtained from detainees who are being interrogated. This is info that is shared between the CIA and MI6 so I was also able to see.

Speaker:
The plane from Bromma airport, N379P, has for the past two years also landed in Uzbekistan on several occasions.

All in all there have been at least seven trips with the city of Taskjent as the destination.

Craig Murray, Former British Ambassador to Uzbekistan:
Torture is extremely prevalent in Uzbekistan used by the police and the SNB, the Uzbek security service. Some of this torture can be extremely grave. I have come across many cases of rape in front of family members who they wish to extract information from. And torture with boiling liquid is also used, and the application of electrodes is something I have seen in a couple of dozen cases. To give an example I have here a post mortem photos of a corpse, witch were past on the British Embassy. These show that the person was boiled to death. Very large areas of the body are covered in this scolding.

Speaker:
Information that is extracted through the use of torture is passed on from the U.S.’s allies to the CIA. They, in turn, send this information on to their coalition partners such as the British MI-6 – and the Swedish SÄPO.

Craig Murray, Former British Ambassador to Uzbekistan:
I have seen a good del of this so called intelligence and indeed it is very bad. It’s poor intelligence, created with the purpose of exaggerating the threat of terrorism. You have to question the people who want to believe it.

Robert Baer, Former CIA agent:
There is a political point. The US was attacked on September 11 and there has to be a reaction of some sort. And no one has the time or the intelligence to sit around and see who’s guilty. So they immediately react and inform governments we have excellent information on so and so let’s bring them out. Because we are simply taking what the Egyptians are giving us and transmitting that to Sweden. You have to keep in mind that this is an opportunity for all these regimes to crack down dissidents and we are just taking their word at it.

Laila Freivalds, Minister for Foreign Affairs:
-Do you still maintain that these two men were terrorists?
-As far as I know, there is no one who has had a reason to take up a definitive position on that.
-But what is your position?
-There is no reason to take up a definitive position on that…

Speaker:
Five hours after the American plane N379P took off from Bromma airport it landed in Cairo. Agiza and Al-Zery were then turned over to Egyptian intelligence officers. The Swedish government didn’t know where Agiza and Al-Zery were held prisoners. They didn’t even ask. According to a number of witness statements and original documents that Kalla fakta has obtained, the men were subjected to systematic torture during the first 60 days.

On location in Cairo this spring, Al-Zery’s Swedish attorney was trying to obtain more information.

Kjell Jönsson, Attorney for Mohammed Al-Zery:
The statements that they were subjected to electric shock torture has now been corroborated. This is very painful torture we’re talking about. You attach electrodes to the most sensitive parts of the body. We’re talking about genitalia, we’re talking about nipples, ear lobes, underarms. And this is torture being carried out in the presence of doctors who judge how much torture, that is – electricity, a person can take.

Speaker:
Kalla fakta published its first findings in this case in May. It wasn’t until then, after two and a half years, that the government took action.

Archive:
From Kalla fakta May 17th 2004
Hans Dahlgren, Undersecretary of State for Foreign Affairs:
-This is so sinister that we have prepared a visit to Cairo on a high political level from Sweden.

Archive:
Laila Freivalds from Sveriges Radio (Swedish radio), Ekot May 20th 2004
-What I can assure you of now is that there will be an independent investigation. In order for that to happen I believe that we need international cooperation.

Speaker:
In a session of the Riksdag, the minister emphasized that she had personally taken action in the case.

Archive:
The Riksdag June 15th 2004, Laila Freivalds, Minister for Foreign Affairs
-And I have also, in writing, commented on the necessity of having an independent investigation, with international cooperation, of the representatives of the Egyptian government.

Speaker:
It has now been almost six months, and the question is what has happened. Laila Freivalds turned to the top man in charge of intelligence – the same general and government representative who at one time worked out the deal for the guarantee.

The response from Egypt is classified, but through other documents it is made clear that the Egyptian government denies all charges. And the Swedish request for an investigation is not commented on at all.

Laila Freivalds, Minister for Foreign Affairs:
-Can we from that answer we have now been given trust that there has been no torture?
-Not without an investigation!
-But if we can’t trust the Egyptian authorities, how can we trust a guarantee issued by those same authorities?
-First we have to find out what the truth is, and in order to do that we have to have an investigation into the matter.

Speaker:
Outwardly, the government talks about an impartial and independent investigation. But according to the Ministry of Foreign Affairs’ chief legal counsel, Sweden will settle for an investigation led by the Egyptian authorities as long as there is some international cooperation, in which case Sweden has offered to contribute a retired Swedish police officer or prosecutor.

Laila Freivalds, Minister for Foreign Affairs:
If you go to a torturer and ask him if he’s tortured anyone, what do you think the answer would be?
-Well, I don’t know. Generally people have a propensity for denying what they’ve done, of course, and that’s why it is important that you structure the investigation in such a way as to lead to the truth.

Kjell Jönsson, Attorney for Mohammed Al-Zery:
Well, it’s obvious that an Egyptian investigation wouldn’t be independent. This is a matter of discovery, and it is also a matter of an investigation that can be life threatening for the people involved in the investigation. A person who has been tortured and is accusing his torturer is in a decidedly dangerous situation. This is the worst legal scandal that I have ever seen in my 30 years in the profession. I’d call it a definite miscarriage of justice.

Robert Baer, Former CIA agent:
Why step out of the rule of law? Once you do that you can go after anybody. Look what happened in Abu Grieb, this is the same thing that happened in Sweden.
-The only group that can take the initiative like this is the White House, national security council.
-So the White House ordered the deportation of Agiza and Al-Zery?
-I have no doubt about it, I worked for the CIA for 21 years. The only way to do this is by orders from the president. I’m convinced of it and the Swedish government wants to have assurances that this is US policy.

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Studio:

Closing
But what happened on this side of the Atlantic? Can the Swedish government actually – as they claimed – have been totally unaware that they had participated in a U.S. man hunt? We’ll be right back...

COMMERCIAL

Opening
Welcome back to Kalla fakta.

Disguised agents from an elite American military unit, answering directly to the White House, are allowed to take command on Swedish soil, contrary to Swedish law. In a secret and brutal operation, two Egyptians who have asked for asylum in Sweden are collected and brought to Egypt to be tortured.

The motivation is that they are suspected of terrorism, but no evidence is presented.

The Swedish government has denied all responsibility and claims that they knew nothing. But is it really possible that an operation such as this would be given the go-ahead from Swedish SÄPO without the Swedish government having been informed?

Speaker:
The security police, SÄPO, says that they described the American involvement to the Ministry of Foreign Affairs. Then minister Anna Lindh and some officials and heads were in the same room at the time of the run-through. In a memo from the meeting SÄPO writes:

From SÄPO document:
”After a certain amount of consultation with personnel at the Ministry for Foreign Affairs, minister Anna Lindh gave her approval of SÄPO/RPS taking advantage of the U.S.’s offer for help in the transportation of Agiza and El Zary.”

Speaker:
But the Ministry for Foreign Affairs categorically denies that the American involvement was mentioned at the meeting.

Laila Freivalds, Minister for Foreign Affairs:
-All of them, and there were a lot of people in on the meeting with Anna Lindh, say the same thing: they can’t recall there ever having been a mention of American involvement.
-Do you have any explanation of how SÄPO and the Ministry for Foreign Affairs can have such wildly disparaging descriptions of this meeting?
-No, of course I can’t explain it.

Speaker:
But the people responsible at SÄPO maintain that the Ministry for Foreign Affairs was informed and approved the American involvement. Several people within SÄPO also tell of the Ministry of Justice having been informed at the same time – in order to, as usual, create political support in such a sensitive issue. When we contacted the then head of SÄPO Jan Danielsson, this is what he had to say:

Telephone:
Jan Danielsson, Former head of SÄPO:
-In a case such as this, which is expected to attract attention, you inform Justice, of course. They have to know.
-Can you have forgotten to give them a general run-through?
-No, I couldn’t, but I don’t quite remember how it went. The contacts with the government in this matter were perfectly natural and honest.
-Specifically, what was it you informed them of?
-Well, that they were being deported to Egypt with the Americans’ help.

Speaker:
When Kalla fakta asks to interview the people responsible at the Ministry of Justice, we are told that they only respond to questions via e-mail, and there they deny that Thomas Bodström or anyone else in charge was told of the American involvement before the deportation.

Telephone:
Linda Romanus, Press Secretary, Ministry of Justice:
-Why can’t you respond in an interview?
-Because other questions that we can’t answer are bound to come up. You must know that answering questions in front of a camera is a completely different thing. You can suddenly be faced with a new set of questions.

Announcer:
Jan Danielsson stands by his statement, but is unwilling to agree to an on-camera interview.

Telephone:
Jan Danielsson, Former head of SÄPO:
-I have no interest in being in the middle of some government controversy.
-You have to put up with certain things at times, that’s what politics is all about.

Julia Hall, Human Rights Watch:
What I think is required by these revelations is a full and independent investigation that gets to the roots to all three governments complicity in these transfers and holds these governments countable, sends a signal to other governments that these types of counter terrorism measures are not acceptable.

Theo Van Boven, Special Rapporteur of the UN Commission on Human Rights:
I would welcome a good investigation, an independent agency, high commissioner on Human Rights, Special Rapporteur on torture, or a combination, or the committee against torture, to look into that, and start now.

Sync:
Peter Rosenblum, Professor, Human Rights, Columbia Law School:
Well I really hope that we are in a position in 5 years from now to look back with a sense of scorn and for those who perpetrated these things and deep imbursement that we allowed that we allowed ourselves to go so far.

Speaker:
Bromma – Cairo in December of 2001. One of at least 72 operations that Kalla fakta can tie to the airplane N379P, which continues to fly for the Pentagon.

Robert Baer, Former CIA agent:
Intelligence is an organized search for a windfall, but arresting randomly people in a community, yes eventually you can point at success, but how many innocent people end up being victimised?

VO/Robert Baer:
You keep on doing this, you keep on going like this and we are going on a hundred years of war against Islam, witch I don’t think we want to be in.

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Closing
About a week ago, the Ministry for Foreign Affairs called Al-Zery’s attorney and told him that Egypt now had dropped all charges against him. So, after two and a half years in an Egyptian prison, he is declared innocent of the crime he was suspected, tortured and deported for. Agiza, on the other hand, was sentenced to 15 years imprisonment in a brief military trial.

And this week, the UN Committee against Torture in Geneva is deciding if other countries can follow Sweden’s example, to circumvent the ban on sending people to countries where they risk being tortured – through a diplomatic guarantee.

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